HOW I BECAME A MODEL for Adidas, L'Oreal, Brookstone | Karlly Feng, Model and YouTuber @ BICOASTAL MGMT | How to Start Modeling & Sign with an Agency

How do you get started with modeling? What does it take to shoot with Adidas, L’Oreal and Brookstone? Karlly Feng shares her experience signing with BICOASTAL MGMT and how she balances Modeling with YouTube and her 9-5 as a Product Manager at Microsoft.

Chapters
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:02:23) How to Practice Taking Photos
(00:05:00) Do You Need a Portfolio to Start Professionally Modeling? 
(00:07:00) Pros & Cons of Signing With an Agency
(00:08:40) My First Casting
(00:10:42) Shooting with Adidas
(00:12:14) On Being an Asian Petite Model
(00:13:20) Balancing 9-5 at Microsoft with Modeling & YouTube 
(00:16:30) Bias Toward Action
(00:18:20) How to Get Over the Fear of Putting Yourself Out There
(00:21:08) Discovering Your Innate, Hidden Creativity Amidst a 9-5
(00:24:40) Challenges
(00:25:52) Advice to Getting Started with Modeling & Self-Acutalizing Your Dreams
(00:30:00) Where to Find Karlly

Transcript

Rhaime Kim: 0:00

Karlly Feng is a model and YouTuber. She's also a product manager at Microsoft, Karlly and I met while studying computer science at Brown University. Currently, this is not the Center for IT. This is we're recording.

Karlly Feng: 0:16

I'm very glad as well.

Rhaime Kim: 0:18

Tell me about your modeling career. Who are you signed with right now? And what brands have you worked with?

Karlly Feng: 0:25

I started modeling around two to three years ago. I'm currently signed with bicoastal management. The most notable brands I've worked with are Adidas, L'Oreal Brookstone to name a few. I mostly model in the commercial beauty and a little bit in the fitness space. That's really where like my bread and butter lies.

Rhaime Kim: 0:47

I remember you were a pole vaulter. Yeah. Brown. So you were a Do you want to athlete, which is so crazy. I can't imagine like when I see pole vaulters, I don't know how you'll do it. So do you think that background has influenced the types of brands you work with? Not

Karlly Feng: 1:03

so much the types of brands I work with? As much as I think the confidence? Yeah, it's given me Whoa. Yeah, I think just knowing like my body has done and can do really cool shit. Yeah, lets me just be confident in knowing that. If a brand wants me to cast for a, like more athletic type of shoot, and they asked me to send in a self tape, then I can, like, do it. And I can know that I look good doing it. Yeah. Oh, my

Rhaime Kim: 1:31

God, I didn't even make that connection. That's really cool. Did you start pole vaulting when you're younger?

Karlly Feng: 1:37

I started freshman year of high school. So when I was working,

Rhaime Kim: 1:41

what about modeling is the most fun for you like, is it getting ready for modeling,

Karlly Feng: 1:47

I definitely love getting ready. It's more. So the idea that there's so many subtle movements that can make or break a photo, the aspects that I can control generally are my facial expression. And the way my body is angled toward the camera outside of that, like other people have already taken care of the lighting, wardrobe makeup. And I think it's just so interesting how like, you play with the facial expressions along with the way you move your body. And you can get such different images from such subtle movements. And I think that's always really fun to discover and play around with. Do you,

Rhaime Kim: 2:23

like do a lot of self discovery when taking photos of yourself? Or do you do a lot of research? Like how do you think about different poses?

Karlly Feng: 2:30

So I definitely practice in front of a mirror. I have a mood board. So when I collaborate with photographers, I'll generally show them an idea of what I'd like to aim for. And that images I want. Yeah. And so sometimes it's even bringing my mood board and working with the photographer in front of me and thinking about where the photographer has to be, and like what my body has to look like, yes, we're shooting. Yeah, I didn't realize that you could also come prepare to a photo shoot.

Rhaime Kim: 2:58

I mean, maybe that's a super obvious thing. But I didn't realize that like is that when you're engaging in photographer

Karlly Feng: 3:04

Exactly. When I'm trying to build my portfolio? I'm in control of what images I want to add. Yeah, right. So totally, sometimes it's like, more colorful, blocky makeup looks. Sometimes it's more like movement inspired editorial style photos. It's up to me to build that portfolio I want. I tried to come very prepared to shoots that I setup. And then if it's a client that's bugging me, then I am just wherever they want me to be.

Rhaime Kim: 3:29

Are there certain models that you look up to? Or is it more like you go on Pinterest? And do your research there? How do you build that mood board? Oh, yeah,

Karlly Feng: 3:38

that's a good question. So I, for my mood board, I separate it into different styles. So I have like a fitness mood board, I have a makeup mood board, the beauty mood board. Yeah, more like fashion editorial type of mood board. Okay. And depending on what I'm trying to add to my portfolio, I will draw inspiration from those specific mood boards. And I feel like Pinterest makes it really easy to look for the types of images you want. They suggest really great images already. If you're able to find like a few starting out that you're looking for, as far as models that I look up to, I have always really lucked up to be one who is like the OG Asian supermodel. And I followed her for a while. I think I discovered her in high school. Yeah, so it's been really fun to see the stuff that she's in. That's the main one. There's other like Asian models that I follow as well. And it's cool to see like what types of bookings that Asian models can get. Yeah, can continue to get, of course,

Rhaime Kim: 4:35

do you look at the brands that they've worked with? Or do you more look at the kind of their makeup or hair?

Karlly Feng: 4:42

It's a little bit of both? Probably primarily the the brands? Yeah, they work with because those are the brands that are looking for Asian models. So those are the brands that I could potentially be working with also.

Rhaime Kim: 4:52

So you talked about being prepared for photoshoots that you've booked? Did you go through that process to have photos For you reached out to agencies and booked your first clients, what was that preparation process like, from when you had this idea of wanting to be professional about modeling up until the point where you got that first deal or you're able to sign you're with an agency?

Karlly Feng: 5:16

It's quite widely known that you don't need a portfolio. If you're just starting out. That's great. Yeah, you just need to take Digital's which are the basic, but as of your like, headshot profile, both sides, a three quarter profile. Yeah. And then a three quarter body shot. And you'd want to be wearing like a tank top and jeans and maybe heels. But that being said, I do think a portfolio really helps you to like if an agency is interested in signing you, and they're interested in your Digital's then they'll probably follow up and be like, can you send me a link to your portfolio? Yeah. So it is helpful. I didn't have a great portfolio. When I started.

Rhaime Kim: 5:54

I think that just goes to show that if any of you are out there and you want a model, you have no excuse. Let's go, you know, did you use a self timer? Or did you have friends who helped you take some of those initial photos?

Karlly Feng: 6:09

Yeah, I will say the one thing to your to your last question is it is really helpful to have a well curated Instagram. Yeah, these days, if an agency is interested in booking you, even if you don't have a portfolio, they will be looking at your Instagram and seeing like what your face looks like, and what your body looks like. Yeah, in the quote unquote, wild. Yeah. And as far as taking my own photos. Actually, a Shawn took my first Digital's our mutual friend. Oh, my God,

Rhaime Kim: 6:37

no way. Yeah, I love that I actually didn't know.

Karlly Feng: 6:42

I also went to Brown also studied computer science and is actually also a product manager. He was the only photographer friend I knew in Seattle at the time where Yeah, I just reached out to him. I was like, Hey, can you take my Digital's and then those got me signed with my first agency.

Rhaime Kim: 6:58

That's so cool. For a model that starting out if you want to do like professional like photo shoots and all that, would you recommend signing with an agency? And was that for you the obvious first step into being a professional model,

Karlly Feng: 7:12

I think there's a couple of ways to go about it. It's either being represented or not being represented. And there's pros and cons to both. I think if you're starting out, and you have no knowledge about the industry, it's really helpful to be represented by an agency. Yeah. But that being said, an agency generally takes 20% or 10%, of whatever you make. And it it's standard. Yeah. And after taxes, it's a good chunk out of what you would originally be making if you weren't represented. That being said, there's also a lot of agencies out there that don't have the best practices, even the most highly known agencies. There's like a lot of models who talk about really high website, these are being told to pay weird prices for like model apartments and all of that stuff. You have to be careful when you're signing with your first agency. I would say go on Reddit. There's a lot of information on Reddit, there's a lot of information online. If any agency is asking you to pay up front, that's probably most likely a red flag. Yeah, especially if they're looking there. Especially if they're asking you to pay for classes or photoshoots. From from photographers within the agency. Yeah. But if you're unsigned, there's also ways to book jobs. That way, you can go onto casting websites, you can follow casting accounts on Instagram, and you might not know your worth in the beginning, which is also a little bit dangerous, because you could be signing away rights that you didn't even know or a thing. Yeah, so there's pros and cons to both. If you know what you need to know about the fashion industry, then being unsigned can be a great way to make money.

Rhaime Kim: 8:51

So once you signed with bicoastal, how long did it take for you to get your first casting and then your first signed?

Karlly Feng: 9:00

photoshoot? Okay, so, castings come quite frequently. Okay. Obviously, they're slow periods. I think it took me less than a month to get my first casting not so

Rhaime Kim: 9:11

exciting. Yeah. What was that? Like? Were you like, oh my god, I made it. Oh my gosh. I wouldn't be like, Oh my god, you guys. I'm a model.

Karlly Feng: 9:19

Quick aside castings are when you're like, asked to audition.

Rhaime Kim: 9:23

I know. Okay, still okay. Maybe. If it's okay. Don't they have a pre process? So like, they would invite people to a casting Right, exactly.

Karlly Feng: 9:33

So the way the process works is, you're signed with an agency, the agency submits you to all of these brands that are requesting models, the casting director will take a look at everything all of the agents have submitted, and from there, they ask specific models to cast or self tape or go see them in person. So if you're asked to send in a self tape, casting or audition, then you're like pretty much halfway there. or to booking the job. But oh, there's so many girls are models that all these casting directors see. So I cast for, like 100 jobs and I book to it's like that type of those types of numbers.

Rhaime Kim: 10:14

Wow. So it's like 2%. That's, it's like finding a job really like a competitive job. But it's probably even slimmer considering that of all the people who submitted their materials. Maybe you get casted and then you get hired. And so the real percentage is actually quite low.

Karlly Feng: 10:32

Yeah, I think this is the case for many models. But obviously, there's models who are booking jobs like, Yeah, four times, five times six times a month. So just depends on it depends on the model.

Rhaime Kim: 10:42

Who was your first booking? And what was it like to care back?

Karlly Feng: 10:47

My first booking was Adidas.

Rhaime Kim: 10:49

That's insane. Like, that's a really amazing first client, right?

Karlly Feng: 10:54

Yeah, it was a lot of fun to hear that I had booked that client, it was for a commercial. They had me do basketball, soccer and running. Yeah, basically playing those sports. But that goes back to being able to cast and self tape my abilities, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was a really fun first client to book,

Rhaime Kim: 11:16

you must have been so proud. Was there video content? Or was it like a lot of photo assets? Like what came out of that? Shoot?

Karlly Feng: 11:24

It was video content. Okay. Wow, that's

Rhaime Kim: 11:27

pretty intense, right? Especially as your first job?

Karlly Feng: 11:30

Yeah. But really, it was them telling me to like play basketball, or them telling you to run and just like, look, so how did you

Rhaime Kim: 11:38

like prepare for that, like from hearing back that you're confirmed for the booking until the shoot date? How much time did you have? And were there ways in which you

Karlly Feng: 11:49

prepared a bit from when I was confirmed to when they shot was probably no more than a week or two? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. things very quickly. Yeah. I will be casting for things that shoot next week, for example. Yeah. Wow. So. And in terms of preparation, I didn't really do much to prepare, they didn't give any explicit instructions. So it's just knowing that I have to show up at a certain time on a certain day.

Rhaime Kim: 12:14

You're a petite model, you mentioned that you've looked up to a lot of Asian models and stuff. So I'm curious, like, do you think having a more diverse background flows into the type of work you do as a model?

Karlly Feng: 12:28

I don't think it does, necessarily. Yeah. I do notice that when I'm on set, I'm usually one of the few or only Asian models. But I do think in general brands are trying to be more diverse, which is what I love to hear.

Rhaime Kim: 12:46

Yeah, definitely. Like, we're not that old. But even when we were growing up, I just remember looking at, it's a very classic example, but like Victoria's Secret and all that. So I feel like, you know, so many brands try to just include diverse, like body types now, and, and racial backgrounds and all that. So that's really great to hear. I guess, with the rise of influencers. I wonder if that actually has helped brands realize that as long as you have an audience that connects with you, that's the most important thing. You're a product manager at Microsoft. I mean, that's a fantastic job. If you're just doing that, that would be amazing. And so do you find it challenging to balance your nine to five job and your modeling career?

Karlly Feng: 13:32

It definitely requires some planning. Yeah, sometimes I get requests to audition or in person cast or a job. And there's not a lot of turnaround time. Right. So I have to make sure that I'm generally on top of my

Rhaime Kim: 13:48

shit. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But

Karlly Feng: 13:52

that being said, I have some flexibility, because I work from home. And if I ever have to cast for something in person, I can schedule the casting around my meeting this in the sense that, yeah, generally I can show up within a certain window of time, okay. And I can just plan to show up in between meetings. If I'm doing a self tape, then I'll just self tape in the morning and then edit it, send it in, and then I'll log on for

Rhaime Kim: 14:14

work working in tech, we have to be so grateful for that. And COVID the pandemic is obviously an awful thing. But the fact that it's led to more flexibility for more people generally, is just a really good thing. It makes it a lot more feasible for you to even consider having this part time job. Yeah. Do you find it exhausting, though, like constantly creating content needing to look out for your full time work and modeling because for me, I'm just getting started with my podcast, but it's like a lot at first, you have so much like energy and you're just so excited to do all this stuff. But while I haven't run a marathon yet, I do think It is like a marathon and every what everybody says all the motivational YouTube videos iWatch tells me that you have to be consistent and that like, You're not always going to have like willpower, but consistency is the key to success over time. And so I'm curious like for you, do you find the modeling work? Super energizing? And that's like a worthwhile balance? Or do you also struggle with okay, like, I do have to be consistent, I do have to create content, like, What's your relationship with your work as a model and YouTuber?

Karlly Feng: 15:32

I really love being on set and meeting all have these new people with so many different backgrounds? Yeah, and I just love being able to show my more creative side and my personality, yeah, shoots. That being said, the introverted part of me gets really exhausted after seven days, because I do have to be on and I want to be networking and meeting all these new people. I think as far as the content creation, I totally understand where you're coming from, because I started my YouTube journey around six to seven months ago now. Yeah. And I tried to be consistent, totally, it's really hard to come up with new ideas and execute on a weekly basis. And I think part of that is coming up with like a flow, and a process that makes things easier. Yeah. But I am still trying to figure out like, what sticks with my audience, and how to connect with my audience. So it's something that I'm also figuring out as I go along this journey. Yeah,

Rhaime Kim: 16:31

definitely. And would you say like bias to action? Is that something you kind of live by? Or what are your thoughts on planning versus doing and making sure you like, meet deadlines? Like, how do you think about that balance,

Karlly Feng: 16:46

I'm definitely more of a bias toward action type of person. I think if I weren't, I would never have started my YouTube channel. Like, I knew that my first 10 to 50 videos, were not going to be great. And I'm still figuring out how to make my videos better. But I just wanted to give myself a safe space to put my creations and I knew that they were going to get better. I just wanted to start doing it. Yeah. And then once I got over the anxiety of putting myself out there, then I wanted to, like start thinking about, okay, how am I going to monetize? How am I going to turn this business? And how am I going to grow a community? From this? Yeah,

Rhaime Kim: 17:31

those are my ultimate goals. Yeah, definitely, like the community aspect, like really important. And it's hard. I mean, content creation is a huge business. But you can apply some of the same learnings from being in the corporate world of knowing your target audience. It sounds so obvious, but it's actually really hard. And that's a problem that I think about with my podcast, I'm just like, do I need to keep churning out podcasts? And then like, all think about that,

Karlly Feng: 18:00

I think also like, curating the type of audience you want to build. That's also something I'm trying to figure out as well.

Rhaime Kim: 18:07

Yeah. By creation, is that reaching the right people? Exactly. It's a lot of people out there.

Karlly Feng: 18:14

And not everyone's for me, and I'm not for everyone. So like, how do I find that group of people that I can really connect with?

Rhaime Kim: 18:20

Yeah, definitely. Was it scary? putting yourself out there? You mentioned that you're, you told yourself, okay, my first 10 to 50 videos are gonna be like, not so great. But then you're like you called it a safe space? And I'm like, How is it safe? If everybody can see it, whether it's at work distance, or close family members, distant and close friends? Like, what was it like to put yourself out there? And then how have you thought about that? Like, because you said, you're an introvert. And so putting yourself out there? I mean, it's a lot.

Karlly Feng: 18:50

I had to prepare myself when I was thinking about starting my YouTube channel. And the way I did that was by starting a blog first. Oh, yeah. For like, my whole life. I was just, I was pretty opposed to posting on social media. Not that I didn't, I just was never like public, or I posted like, once every six months. Yeah. But I realized that if I was trying to build a modeling career, I needed my Instagram public, I needed to start building a brand. Yeah. And one way that I thought about doing that was starting a YouTube channel. So I wanted to challenge myself to really put myself out there in the beginning for the first five to seven videos. I was pretty nervous putting my videos out there. Yeah, but now I see it as more of an exciting thing to my week.

Rhaime Kim: 19:36

Yes,

Karlly Feng: 19:37

I upload every Tuesday.

Rhaime Kim: 19:39

Every Tuesday, everybody, look for Carly bang.

Karlly Feng: 19:44

And it's so fun to see. I'm still experimenting with my content, right? And it's so fun to see what content sticks with people. And I've realized that it's some of my lifestyle content. It's some of my personal finance tips. And I think I'm still iterating And I'm still figuring out what people want to see

Rhaime Kim: 20:04

that reminds me a lot about the work we do every day as product managers, and also being in tech, given that there are some parallels between like self improvement, and it's always like an iterative process. Are there any learnings that you've had that could be useful or used in your work as a model or a YouTuber?

Karlly Feng: 20:27

So I think product managers have very much of a Dewar's mindset, right? Like, we have to plan out what we want for the next two weeks to one month to three months, and so on. Yeah. And I kind of envisioned that for my modeling career in the sense that I'm always thinking about what I want next. So in my quarterly meetings with my agency, I will say, okay, these are the brands I want to work with. Let's go. And here are the markets. I want to be signed in Nice. And I don't always meet those goals, right. But every quarter, I try to take some action that helps me get toward those goals. Yeah, just that much more.

Rhaime Kim: 21:08

You mentioned that modeling for you is awesome, because it's this way for you to be like really creative. I'm curious, like, Have you always identified as somebody who's creative? Or did you surprise yourself at you know, finding this such a necessary or fulfilling outlet?

Karlly Feng: 21:26

I don't know that I considered myself creative in the sense that growing up, I wasn't necessarily like the artsy person or the crafty person. Yeah. But I found that I found that when I started cultivating my interest in modeling, I realized that I was also somewhat interested in photography. I was interested in editing for a little bit. Yeah, I found that when I'm learning about something new. So when I was starting to learn about modeling, I was also interested in learning about other aspects that go on behind the scenes. Yeah. And same for YouTube. Growing up in the group projects where I had to make videos, I never wanted to do the editing. But now it's so fun to learn about, like how to make different effects. And yeah, just make the whole video seem like a smooth process. It's so fun to learn about how to make the video just a great experience for the viewer.

Rhaime Kim: 22:15

It's interesting you say that? Because I would say the same. I think if somebody asked several years back, Hey, are you creative? I'd be like, no, because I think growing up like the definition of creative is quite simple. It's like, can you draw, can you paint I can, but doesn't come naturally. Like, I'll do it if I have art class. But now I feel like creative freedom is actually one of my values. I mean, it's also about what you do. So I'm like, is it a value, but for me, it's a value. And I see it reflected in my job as a product manager. But for me, that's also why it's been so great to work on a podcast because I can produce and yeah, so I guess if somebody asked me now, it'd be like, Yes, I am creative, like I need to create something.

Karlly Feng: 22:57

I love that. And also, I feel like sometimes our nine to five does not allow us that space to be creative in the way that we want to be. And it's nice to channel that elsewhere and also learn a ton while we're doing it. Yeah,

Rhaime Kim: 23:12

definitely. In our work, we can be creative in defining, like, what to build next and what the strategy is. But it has to be within the parameters of not only the company, but the very specific area within the company you're at. So I can totally understand that. Would you say that you feel a sense of creative control? Or would you say that a lot of the work that you create is actually the result of partnering with the best photographers are something like how much of your work is solo creation? Would you say versus like, collaborating with other creators and photographers?

Karlly Feng: 23:46

For modeling? I would say it's very much a collaboration.

Rhaime Kim: 23:49

Yeah, there's a lot of people behind the scenes, like you're saying, you're networking and stuff, right?

Karlly Feng: 23:53

Right. Even if it's a shoot, where I'm just building my portfolio, and it's simply the photographer and myself, I let them take care of the lighting and the angles and all of that. And I just take care of the poses and the facial expressions and my movement. Yeah, in that sense. It's very much a collaboration, I think with YouTube, but I have full control. And sometimes, I don't know if I like that, because I don't want to be thinking about so many different things. Yeah. And so I think especially for my talking head videos, I tried to very much make it into a process where my tripods at the same height all the time, and I'm sitting at the same spot every time. Yeah, just so that it makes the process easier, I think for vlogs. If I want to be a little bit more creative, I'll think about the different shots that I want to include in the final vlog or that type of lifestyle video.

Rhaime Kim: 24:40

What are some challenges that you're actively working on in your work as a model and YouTuber,

Karlly Feng: 24:48

so I'm still trying to get signed in multiple markets. I'm currently signed in Boston, and I'm still trying to get signed in Chicago, Seattle again, and potentially even internationally. I'm also So looking to be booking regularly, I think so once a month would make me very happy right now. Yeah, for YouTube, I'm still trying to figure out my bread and butter content. I, I'm also still trying to grow my audience. And I'm still working on putting my process in place where it becomes really easy for me to be putting out that one video a week, and potentially even expanding to two videos a week. From content go,

Rhaime Kim: 25:26

it's a lot, it's really a lot. You've mentioned the word process a few times, it sounds like a business principle to have process, like an operational process. And I guess it's very much the same in your like YouTube creation, especially as you try to scale.

Karlly Feng: 25:42

Exactly. And I think without a process, it's really hard to scale. Yeah. And especially if I want to be putting out two videos a week like I need to scale. What advice

Rhaime Kim: 25:53

would you give yourself, if you could talk to yourself prior to starting your modeling journey, figure out

Karlly Feng: 26:00

what type of career you want to build as a model, and figure out what type of modeling jobs that you could potentially book with your face, your height, your body type, figure out what types of agencies can book you that job, and that doesn't necessarily even have to be in the exact city that you live in. Lots of agencies will sign models around the US not every agency, but there are definitely other agencies that will sign models that aren't even in their state, take a good Digital's apply to agencies. And if you don't get the type of feedback you want, or you get interest from agencies that you don't know, if would be a good fit, then just wait three to four to six months, take your Digital's again and apply again. And in between that time it's worth collaborating with photographers building your portfolio. Yeah, practicing how to model essentially,

Rhaime Kim: 26:51

what advice would you give others who are entering like the influencing business and the modeling business or really at large, like anybody who's starting a side hustle? Or is at this starting journey as an entrepreneur?

Karlly Feng: 27:05

I think it's really hard to do. But just taking the first step toward your goals. I think when you start taking your first step, you know what you like, what you don't like, you know what you need to iterate? Yeah. And if that business isn't for you, then you can pivot sooner than you would have if you started six months later. So for example, when I started my YouTube channel, I didn't really know what I wanted to talk about. So I started talking about starting YouTube, I found that I connected with a good amount of people in my starting my YouTube journey. Yeah. But I've realized that, I don't know if I want to build my brand around starting YouTube. So I've since pivoted, and started talking about what I really do enjoy talking about, which is like makeup, personal finance, my lifestyle, all of

Rhaime Kim: 27:52

that realm. Yeah, definitely. And it's cool, because still, those starting YouTube journey videos are on your channel, right? So it's still out there. But you can still iterate and you can change your brand, you can change your strategy any day. And there's nothing wrong with that. I love that the internet allows us so that we can iterate and it's not a huge upfront investment, to just try a lot of different things and see what sticks. You mentioned also that you would encourage people to just take the first step towards your goal. And also your goal doesn't have to be super defined, right? It could just be like, I want to be a model and be paid for that work. I love that. Because I've been wanting to interview founders and entrepreneurs for almost 10 years. And I don't know why I didn't do it. For me, how I got started is I would just have these, you know, you have these thoughts in the back of your mind of I should do this. And it could be something as simple as Oh, I should wipe off that like toothpaste mark on my bathroom window. Or even saying yes to yourself. Like, I want to order this dish, but it'd be better value if I ordered this other dish. But I started just saying yes to myself, and also hearing and taking action on little things in the back of my mind. And for me that helped me to finally just find whoever was willing to do the first interview. Thank you so much, Kevin. And then like go with it. So I do think it's so crazy that like you have this thought percolating in the back of your mind. And you just have to do it and you have to keep proving to yourself that it's not hard to do those things in the back of your mind. I mean, it is hard but to take that first step is always less hard than you may initially like. Think it might be.

Karlly Feng: 29:36

I think the importance in taking that first step is you go from someone who thinks about can I even do that too? I am doing that. Let's go Yeah. And and that's a huge mindset shift. It like builds so much confidence it does and you can sleep well at night knowing that you're taking steps toward your goal totally. And if you fail, then you will never regret not having tried.

Rhaime Kim: 30:00

Thank you that makes me feel better about myself. But it's so true. Like, I think it in general, it just shows you that you can take control of your life and you're actually like, on the horse, bring it somewhere. It's not like a rodeo where you're like, oh my god, like life is happening to me. It's like, No, I can define how my life is going. So I definitely totally agree with you. Carly, where can we find you? Where can the audience reach you?

Karlly Feng: 30:28

Instagram? I am at Carly thing K ar LYFENG and YouTube. I'm also currently thing Yeah, cool. And how can the audience help you? Are

Rhaime Kim: 30:39

you trying to book any specific clients or

Karlly Feng: 30:42

check out my YouTube, subscribe, follow me on Instagram, and check out my blog, the humble hyphenated.com.

Rhaime Kim: 30:48

Thank you so much, Carly. I really appreciate your time. This is on a Saturday morning. It's so good to keep in touch after our time, miserable, and the TA our line and the center of it at Brown. So thanks so much, Carly. I really appreciate it.

Karlly Feng: 31:04

I love this conversation. Thanks for having me, Ryan.